Christofer Johnsson (Therion)
July 2008
I'm sure that most of the Therion fans were shocked reading the news that you parted ways with the rest of the band. When did it become clear for you that you cannot keep the line-up together?
It's really hard to say because it happened really fast. We've always been very tired of touring but people recovered until this time when it was different. Everybody was really exhausted after this world tour and the we started this long festival run this year and the band wasn't really on the top. It wasn't really a huge enthusiasm in them so I just told that they cannot be 90% in Therion, they have to be 100% and that they should consider their future with the band. They had a long thinking about it and they realized that it wasn't what it used to be and they didn't want to continue like that anymore.
Did you try to pursue them to stay and keep the line-up as it was?
Well, Kristian has a child now and he changed a lot from that and I think it's a permanent change. He was always the one that you never could book enough shows for. He wanted to do the infinite amount of shows. But after the birth of his child his attitude changed and didn't want to tour that much anymore. I mean I don't want to do these insane tours either like we did with the Lemuria/Sirius B tour when we did 108 shows. That's fucking insane, that's one third of a year. But when I want fewer shows I have bigger plans of how I want them to be but for Kristian is just the matter of not wanting to play as much anymore. And he and his brother, they kind of stuck together. If Kristian leaves Johan wouldn't stay anyway. They're like twins. As for Petter... he doesn't consider himself a drummer, he's a great multi artist. He's an excellent songwriter, a really good singer, a very good guitar player, a good bass and keyboard player and since the songs were already written for the next album, that has been written for years, and basically he's been reduced to just a drummer and he would really want to write songs. But anyway, Kristian felt that he wasn't motivated and wanted to leave and maybe he also thought it was a good opportunity to do it as well. But we didn't have this high motivation anyway because that tour. I really admire them that they are so straight about it. I mean I was very straight to them first but I think a lot of people wouldn't leave a successful bands just like that because even if you don't get rich it's pretty good money still. I mean what are they gonna do now? Of course they can do music and projects on their own and it's probably gonna be very good. I'm very curious to see what is gonna sound like and I would be the first one to buy it. But it's very hard to establish yourself. They're going to make another Demonoid album now and I'm sure that it's gonna be a really cool one but if they go on tour they'll be a support band playing clubs. It's quite different. You kind of get used to a lot of things over the years. Not that we have luxuries but at least we play decent places and we can afford to have a tour bus and those things they can forget if they go on tour with Demonoid or some other new projects. It's really about the trademark and I can honestly say if I would release the next Therion album under my own name as Christofer Johnsson it would sell half just because it doesn't say Therion. The fact that you have been in Therion and you make a project is good in a way that you have contacts and the die hard fans will be curious and a lot of people would buy it, but it's not that easy on a wider perspective of album sales. Take Demonoid for instance... it was basically the whole Therion line-up making a new and fresh death metal album and I thought we would sell at least the same amount as the re-releases of the old Therion death metal albums. I thought the young fans that were interested in picking up the Therion re-releases will be also interested in buying Demonoid. They were not. It sold much less, it basically sold half of what a re-release of an old Therion album did. It's just because it didn't say Therion. Probably if there would be some unreleased demo tapes and I'd put them on a CD and released it under the name of Therion it would sell more than Demonoid because it has the trademark. That's how it works. So it's gonna be very hard for them to establish. I wish them the best of luck.
Do you think you can keep in friendly terms after the split?
Yeah, of course. I don't know why but it seems like nobody believe what you write in your webpage. This statement was something from all of us and I wrote clearly on the webpage that nobody felt bitter or bad about it but people seem to assume that you write some lie on the webpage and the reality is something different but it's not.
Sure, but it could also be a typical statement when bands saying "no personal issues involved" even when there are...
Yeah, but we're not a typical band. (Laughs) I have a lot of contact with Petter. He's doing the mix for the classical DVD. I have mail contact with Kristian and I even made a blind test for the successor that I wanted to have and I sent an audio clip to him asking, "Hey, what do you think about this guitar player?" And he wrote back, "Yes. It's this one, he's perfect. If you would have asked me this is the best you can get on the planet." I haven't spoken to Johan since but Johan is the kind of person that never get in trouble with anybody. (Laughs) He's always happy with everybody. I can't imagine that it would be any sort of bad feeling from any of them. It was their decision and it was me who asked them to think about it. I mean how could anybody be disappointed? Everybody did what they wanted. For me of course it would have been better if they said that it's a temporary thing and they'll have their motivation back because then I didn't have to change members but if things are the way they are then I'd rather replace them. Even though it's not an ideal situation but it's the best we can do out of it. Therion is not just an ordinary band that releases a new album just to have the fans buying it. We need to make another big step musically each time. For me making a new record is as fun today as it was when I did the first album. And I managed to keep this fire alive. For most of the bands it's different. Maybe it takes them 3-5 albums to establish and the manage to preserve this but once they're up there they kind of get used to things and their attitude changes to "Ah, let's make another record." Of course you have the horror example of Motörhead and Saxon ad these classic eighties metal bands that just continue to release another album once a year and then they go on tour and play the same setlist they had for the last 20 years. They are not making bad albums but nobody would buy the new Saxon album and say, "Hey, this is their best album ever." Not even the band themselves think that. Other bands manage to develop like Maiden I think because they are still making interesting albums. And Judas Priest is actually doing some different things as well and keeping their spirit alive.
What do you think about their new album Nostradamus?
I've only heard one of the discs because I got it just before I went away. I think it's not that bad really. There are some good songwriting there and I like that.
How about the replacements for the old members? Did you already start looking?
Yeah, I already have a drummer and a bass player. I won't reveal any names so far though. We will announce them when we do the festival in Poland. They are well established in the Swedish scene. Never really made it into an internationally famous band but they are well known among musicians in Sweden. They have a lot of routine. They are both older than I am and they played together for over ten years so I already had a complete rhythm section. When we had the first rehearsal it felt like we've been playing together for years because they were already so well rehearsed. It was just perfect from the beginning. Of course they didn't know all the songs so well so we tried to rehearse 18 songs at the same time. (Laughs) When it come to the guitar player, there were two guitar players that I was interested in. They were both very interested but none of them could join permanently at this time because of different reasons. One because he's a famous guy and he already has long term commitment that he has fulfil first. The other one has some pretty bad family related personal problems and it wasn't a good plan to do a big thing like joining a band right now. But I really like his guitar playing a lot so I keep the door open and I'm not gonna get another replacement because it sounds exactly the way I wanted. So what I'm gonna do is that I'm gonna use both of them on the record because their styles are really different from each other. Then I'm also going to play some of the guitars on the album myself and I just fill in the rest with them. And for the sake of the record it's better doing it this way. When it comes to the next world tour that would be in 2010 a lot of things can happen: personal things can get solved, commitments can run out, so I think one of them will for sure be ready to join Therion by the time of the next world tour. Since there's gonna be only new members in the band I'm gonna do all the interviews which means the tour will only happen in the second half of 2010 because I'll have to do hundreds of interviews as always. That's still two years from now so there's a lot of things can happen. And one special thing... like I told you about a certain fire that some bands have even after many years being in the business... do you think about the fact that all members that I brought into the band were totally unknown before. They came from nowhere, they didn't make records. Take somebody like Petter for instance. He was almost 30 years old when he made his first record and it was with Therion. And as I told you he's a great instrumentalist and songwriter, so can you imagine what a vitamin injection it is for a band when you have somebody that is so talented and never really got to make a record? When you finally get the chance to do it it's a huge energy boost for the band. I think this is something that helped me over the years to keep this fire alive. I always surrounded myself with so many members like that. Kristian is a fucking world class guitar player and an excellent songwriter and even he didn't make a record before Therion. His brother Johan did two records with a small Swedish prog band, which was a good band, they deserved to be big, but they were on a small label. He's a fucking word class bass player and excellent songwriter and a good guitar player as well. Sami Karppinen, our old drummer never made a record before Therion, Richard Evensand who played drums on Lemuria & Sirius B did two albums with some death metal bands but they never really got anywhere. There were so many people like that and every time it happens it's a vitamin injection for me and for Therion. I really hope for this second of the guitar players I told you about because he's someone that really should be world famous. It seems to me that some sort of magnetism I have. I never searched for people like that; they just came to me. And every time I need to replace a member I never searched for people. I just bumped into the right guys.
Was it the same this time around?
It could be different things happening like someone knows someone and recommend you to check him out. And sometimes you find the right guys immediately this way instead of making auditions and trying out a lot of people. It's something that I feel in my stomach when it's the right one from the beginning. That's how I got Kristian. He had a jazz guitar wearing hip-hop pants and he was shaved, so the first time I saw him I was like, "Is this the guy?" (Laughs) It was Sami, our old drummer that recommended him and I wasn't so sure. Then I just heard him playing and I was like, "Oh yes, this is the guy." And the same thing happened with his brother Johan. Of course Kristian recommended him but there was another guy in my mind as well and I thought the other one was more technical and better but he just didn't feel right. But when I met and heard Johan everything felt instantly perfect. These things happen to me all the time and you only realize years after of why is it like this. It's because he has the same record collection at home, he listens to the same prog albums, and he has the same influences. I mean I don't have bass player influences as I don't play the bass but I know which bass players I like, like Bob Daisley and Gary Thain from Uriah Heep and this is exactly what Johan likes as well. Actually this time I just mistyped something YouTube. I'm not the person that checks out the latest crap on YouTube, I'm not interested in that, but for some reason I checked a thing and just the right person came up. It seems like that those people that were already in the band are the same kind of people and even though they were successful in Sweden they were not as successful as they would deserve to be. I seem to be a magnet to always find people that have a huge amount of talent.
What are the needs for someone to be a member of Therion?
Something that you cannot put on a paper, it's just a way of thinking. I can give you an example: every time we make a new record with Therion we always change a lot of the factors around you to make it more difficult and that you need to have the knife against the throat a little bit to get 100% out of your capacities. If you make things too simple I think you get lazy. A lot of bands have different ways to do it. I remember Lemmy of Motörhead said that the best way to record an album is in the middle of the night when you're hungry, thirsty and tired and when you hate life. It might be like that for some bands that make that kind of music but for me it's different. I want to have new tools to work with. If you take a look at our albums we usually recorded them in different studios with different producers. That's how Therion is and should be. A lot of people that worked for Therion found it pretty chaotic sometimes but that's a necessary amount of chaos is needed to do what we do.
What do you consider your best period with the line-up that just left you?
Oh, we had so many good moments. The first rehearsal with Petter was excellent. He was just the new guy from the countryside. He said "hello" and then we started to play and it sounded better than we ever did. That was a very cool moment. It was also a great moment when Kristian joined the band and his first show ever which was bigger than a pub was headlining the second biggest stage on the Dynamo Festival. (Laughs) That was a pretty cool thing. Most people would shit their pants but he went on stage and looked like someone with routine. He did it perfectly. Also we did some very special moments in Ecuador on the last tour. We pulled over 5000 people as a headlining band. That was pretty amazing.
This upcoming DVD will be probably the last thing you guys do together. Did editing this bring you back some painful memories?
Well, we did the editing before we decided not to continue and right now we're working on the classical disc. The thing is that we actually recorded a show on the last tour in December during the 20th Anniversary Tour so we actually have material for another release together but that's gonna be somewhere in the future. That was a pretty fabulous show. We did things completely different. We spent shitloads of money to have a really cool stage and have a very special show. Also we played songs on that tour that we're never gonna play again.
Speaking of the new DVD, what was the deciding factor that you went to record at this venue? Was it because of the audience?
No, I think the audience in Paris is probably the best one in Europe and actually that place would have been a better place for the filming but there are lots of other things have to be considered when making a DVD. People don't realize how much work are involved in filming a concert. You need a truck full of stuff for the film crew, you have parking problems, you are not allowed to park the buses and the trucks in front of the venue for a long time, so at this Paris venue this is impossible because there's no parking lots and backyard. And you don't want to mess with French police, especially not in Paris. And also the backstage rooms in that Paris venue are really small. It's really a pain in the ass for the band and the crew, so can you imagine a film team on top of that? It would be very chaotic the whole day and it's not very optimal to record a show then. So, it's not always easy to decide on where to record. Also it's about contacts because if I would record, let's say, in Italy I don't know anybody there that I would say I trust in a way that they could bring a film team and I would trust they are good enough. I had very good contacts in Poland and I knew there was no risk with that. And when you film a DVD in one evening you really can't take that big risks because if the result is gonna be shitty then you cannot repair it and you cannot do it again. It's not like making a record in the studio. We needed to make sure it's gonna be great. And also Polish audience is great and that's also good for a DVD. And the film crew is very professional. I'm sure we could have done it cheaper in a lot of Eastern European countries like in Serbia but I'm not sure about the quality. Surely Poland is still a little bit cheaper than Holland or Germany but it's not really a big difference anymore and the most important thing was that we knew that they have the same technical level as people in Germany or Holland.
It's no secret that you enjoy playing live much more than recording in the studio. What's the most exciting thing about live gigs for you?
Because you are part of your musical creation you have very loud music and it's all around you. When you make a record it's like a painting; you're making it, you're watching it. But when you play live you are part of it.
And is there anything you hate about live gigs?
Yeah, most things around it and all the waiting. You wake up somewhere, you have breakfast and then you have shitloads of hours before you make a soundcheck and you have shitloads of hours before you get dinner and then you have a few hours more and then you have the show. And that's your day, day after day after day. It's really boring. You don't have that much private space and there's nothing to do, that's why so many bands become alcoholic. You don't have anything to do but drinking. We don't but many of the bands do. Also it's kind of frustrating that you've been to everywhere but you haven't seen much because you don't have enough time to really go and see something. You don't know exactly when the soundcheck is gonna be. If there's technical problems it'll be later, if there's not then it'll be earlier. So you always need to be there in time as early as possible so you cannot just take a taxi somewhere and see something interesting in the city because you can get a phone call anytime from the tour manager saying, "Soundcheck in five minutes" and you need to be around.
I know it's very early to ask because it won't be released anytime soon but your new album is already written... what can you reveal about that?
I usually don't reveal too much details about these things but the song Adulruna Rediviva was taken from the next album but we decided to use it for Gothic Kabbalah in the end. This song kind of shows the way a little bit. It's longer compositions, it's a more complex record and there are more things happening in the songs.
Many years ago you told me about your aim to record a solo album with more folky sounding music. Will this idea ever develop into an album?
I have a lot of songs and it's just a matter of finding the time to record this stuff. That's one of the reason why I want to tour less so I'll have more time to do recordings and spend more time in the studio. I want to put more money into the production and the fewer shows.