Mark Jansen (Epica)
July 2007
You have finally left your Dutch label who I know you had many problems with over the years...
Well, the company was going down already. We told Hans that if he's going to fire all his employees again we'd leave him. And he said, "No, no, this time I have really good employees." I made a bet with some guys that within a year they would be fired. They guys he had them were doing a really good job for the company and I lost my bet because i took one year and three months before they got fired. (Laughs) I was wrong as it took a little bit longer but they were still fired and we said to Hans, "Then we're gonna leave as well." We didn't want every year to build up something new with new people that we have to work with. Every time we took three steps back to make some progression. Then we officially broke the contract because there were a lot of things that weren't done properly like royalty statements. We never got any royalty statements, we never got any royalties at all, so there were a lot of reasons to break the contract and we did. And two months later the company went bankrupt, so I think we left him at the right moment. Even if we had stayed there wouldn't be Transmission Records anymore. But unfortunately what he did was that he sold all the rights of the bands that were on Transmission Records right before the bankruptcy to his wife, so he still has the rights for the whole back catalogue and our DVD which was supposed to be released. He's still being a pain in the ass with stating that we should not use the artworks for the T-shirts and for our homepage and all these kind of things. He's really a pain in the ass.
He's a real asshole. As you know, I had my battles with him as well.
Yes, but he was already an asshole. (Laughs) Now for us he's an even bigger asshole.
As far as I know everyone hates him in the business.
Yeah. I always tried to make it work for Epica because we had a contract with Transmission but I soon found out that everybody in the music business really hates him. So, it was very hard for us to make progression with the band. He had already a lot of people so much against him that they didn't want to work with us just because they hated Hans and his record label. They all said, "We have no problem with Epica but we have a huge problem with Transmission." That was really hard for us to keep on going. And now that we are on Nuclear Blast things are so different and finally it feels like heaven on earth. (Laughs)
How long does Hans own the rights for your material?
I think forever. It's a really shitty situation. The problem is that he doesn't want to see what he has done to those who he have worked together with. In his eyes he really believes that the world world is against him and he's the only good guy. He really thinks that.
So, how did you end up signing for Nuclear Blast? I bet you received a lot of offers.
Yeah, it was quite a funny story because when we got free from Transmission Records a lot of labels found out and they started contacting us. Because of the interest we thought that it's better wait for the offers and not to contact the companies, because when you contact a company yourself maybe they have the feeling that you are desperate. When companies contacting you that shows they are really interested. In the beginning the best offer came from Century Media and we started negotiating with them. They did a really good offer but the problem was that they were very picky with the last details in the contract, so it took us three months and we still didn't sign the contract because of all these details. Then suddenly Nuclear Blast came up and they asked us to send some new songs and so we did and after they heard the new songs they made as an offer that we really couldn't refuse. (Laughs) In the end it had to be like this because with this contract it's possible for us to make a living from music and it's something we always wanted.
How many albums you've signed for?
Four. That's a lot but the conditions are so good for every album and as I said because of this we are assured that we can make a living from the music and that's what we always worked for and now we realised it. It's no problem to sign for four CDs because our band is now our job and it's perfect for us and so far every promise they made they did it. They are very easy people to work with. If you come from Transmission Records I think almost all people are easy to work with. (Laughs)
Do you plan any live recordings with Nuclear Blast?
We don't have any plans yet but it also depends on how the right thing is going to develop because until Transmission still owns the rights for the old songs we cannot record them for any live DVD or CD. It's a shitty situation but I still have the hope that we can reach an agreement. He really acted like a fool over this and he also did some things against the law and that's why we hired a lawyer who is going to look at the situation and hopefully he'll come up with some solution. I really could write a book about this. (Laughs) I could tell about this for a whole day and people would not believe me. You know Hans so you know what I'm talking about but it's really hard to believe for people who don't know this guy. My girlfriend never met Hans but heard all of the stories and she said, "This guy must be the most crazy guy I ever heard about." (Laughs)
Well, let's talk about music. You came out with a soundtrack album to a Dutch movie in 2005. How did you get involve in that?
The moviemakers contacted me already in 2001 when I was still in After Forever and they liked my music and they asked if I would be interested in participating in their new movie. They only had plans back then but in 2004 they asked me again and I said yes because for me it was something completely new. It was a long time dream for me to compose a score for a movie, so even though it wasn't a high budget movie I took the chance to do it. It was good to do for the experience and I think I learnt a lot from it. With this experience when I get the chance to do it again hopefully this will happen for a more professional movie, so I can use all this experience. I hope that I could do it for an adventurous moves, because I think that fits best to the music I compose.
There's been a change in the band's line-up. You recruited God Dethroned's drummer Arien to sit behind the kit in the studio and there's another guy for the tour...
Actually we've been working with two session drummers and one of them is Arien. When he's not on tour with God Dethroned he can go on tour with us o we hire him as often as possible. Our keyboard player knew him already from the conservatory and they played together for a project back then. There are only a few drummers in the world that are as skilled as Arien that's why he asked him. In the studio we were amazed how he did it. He wasn't prepared and still he laid down all the drum tracks in three days. He's incredible. He listens to the song once and he can play the whole song. I couldn't believe it but he's incredible.
Would you like having him as a permanent drummer?
Yes, we'd love to have him as a permanent drummer but he has so many side activities and also God Dethroned so it's impossible for him to be the permanent drummer for Epica. But as long as it works like this to have him doing half of the tours and the albums it's a good solution for us. The quality is very high and that's important. We did an audition for drummers but all of them... well, they couldn't reach the level Arien set on the new album.
You seem to have a pattern of releasing albums in every second year...
Yeah. I think we need a certain time to work on new songs and we need some time to work on details, so I think it's not possible for us to release earlier. We also don't want to wait too long. We don't want to waste too much time. Most of the time after the recordings of an album we start already working on the next one. This was the first time that after finishing with this album I was really out of energy, so I didn't feel the urge of composing again. I went really deep for the new songs of the new album and it took so much energy for me that I needed a break. And now the break is over and the energy comes back fortunately. (Laughs) So now I'm working already on new songs but this time it took a while.
Was it you again coming up with most of the ideas for the album?
Yes. Most of the time I bring up the idea and work it out as much as possible and when I get stuck or when I think I cannot do any more then I present the song to the band and then they start working on their parts. Even though the main ideas and most of the songs from me everybody have their contribution to the songs and I think all these elements together bring the songs to a higher level. This way of working we developed through the years and it works very well so I think we can keep on going like this. For the first time Yves wrote two songs. He wrote "Never Enough" completely on his own, which is the first single off the album. And he wrote "Safeguard to Paradise" together with me.
Cool, so maybe I'll submit some ideas for you and you can credit me in the next booklet. (Laughs)
(Laughs) Yeah, when you have a really good idea and you send it to me I would use it. Actually there was a guy who really wrote us a piece and that was used at the very end of "The Phantom Agony" in the first record. We thanked this guy in the booklet for writing this piece for us on the record. (Laughs)
The new album sounds heavier to me and definitely has more grunts. How do you see it?
I think that's true. It's also because of all the trouble we gone through the previous year. It wasn't an easy year for us. When things are going not too easy we are more into heavy music. (Laughs) Then automatically the songs become more heavy. You have to get rid of the aggression that builds up in your body. Everyone has a way of getting rid of aggression. Unfortunately some people getting rid of it by negative outcomes like when people hit other people or they destroy things but we use this in our music. So every negative thing that happened to Epica was translated to music and it in a way is a good therapy as well. (Laughs) That's one of the reason why I think the album became heavier. The other reason is that we experienced that the more heavy songs are the best live songs and the people like them most to be played live. We thought let's make more heavy songs because they work live the best, so now we have a lot of songs to choose from for the upcoming tours.
What do you think what would be the best song to perform live?
I think "Fools of Damnation" because a lot of things going on. From the previous album people seemed to like "Consign to Oblivion" the most as a live songs because it is very varied and I think in that way "Fools of Damnation" is similar. It has a lot of variations and a lot of heavy parts. The song contains everything that people expect from Epica.
Did you play any of the new songs live already?
Yeah. We played "The Obsessive Devotion" live already. We also played "Beyond Belief", "Never Enough" and "Menace of Vanity". So far the fans seemed to enjoy "The Obsessive Devotion" the most. We knew it because we made a poll on our website in which we asked them what song they enjoyed the most live from the new album. I think the reason for it is that out of the four songs we played live already this has the most variations and also a lot of heavy elements. We will play these kind of songs a lot on the upcoming tours because we really listen to the fans' opinion. And we also make a list of what the favourites of the people are and we try to play most of these songs.
Speaking of touring... you're on a Nuclear Blast tour package together with Sonata Arctica and Ride the Sky. How do you think this will work out?
All three bands are melodic metal bands, so at least we have something in common. (Laughs) I think it's interesting for people to have three different kind of bands. I think there's some positive things to have similar bands touring together but there's also some positive things when different kind of bands are playing together but still have the metal thing in common. I don't have any expectations. We got the chance to take this tour and we took it with both hands because we get to play in a lot of countries where we haven't been before. And that's a really good thing for us and most of the venues will be packed which is also a good thing and we'll have 3/4 hours to promote our new album, so I think this is a perfect first tour for us for the new album and in early 2008 we can do a tour on our own and then we can play the long setlist.
Will you have the same tour package for the US?
No, we are going to tour in the US with Visions of Atlantic. We will be the headliner so there's gonna be a lot of responsibility on our shoulders in the United States. I would prefer to be the support act in the United States then we should the opportunity to tour the States with a bigger headliner. But we got this chance now and we took it. We were quite amazed that we were that popular over there. Maybe we did a better job than we expected with our first American tour. (Laughs)
You�re on the same label now with After Forever. Are you still in touch?
Yeah. That's why even Sander Gommans did a guest appearance on our new album. I also went to Sander's place to listen to the new After Forever album before it was released and he came to my place to listen to the new Epica album when it was finished. I'm happy that we are in harmony again because it's really not cool to have arguments. We were even talking about touring together in the future because a lot of fans are asking for it.
What do you think about their new album?
I think it's very good. I played it about 15 times and when I play an album 15 times then I like an album. (Laughs)